hello.............,

my question goes about an issue in the attached siemens tutorial.  i excercised this tutorial in step 7 v5.5 and i learned a lot from it.  But now i'am trying to do the same tutorial but than in tia 13.  Everything went ok until i got to page 79- 80.  I can not program the timer in a fc in my tia13 like they do in the tutorial.

the timers are slightly different and i get db with it, and i don't get them in step 7 v5.5. and when  i think that i'am finnished and i call the fc with timer in a ob (wich i have to do twice, page 80).  the aren't working independently .

please can anyone look at it and show me how to do the same like they do in the tutorial but than in tia 13 for the timer in the fc.

gr gerard

Hi,

Which PLC is used in TIA portal? S7 1200 or S7 1500.

Simatic Counters and Timers are not recommended in the S7 1200 and S71500, as they are not multiple instance capable. 

Use TON, TOFF instead using S_ODT, S_OFFDT.

hello Saravana,

I use a cpu 1212.

but i'am trying to do the same as they do in the attachement but than in tia portal v13 for my s7-1200.

create a function with a timer, which is set to 4 sec.

and call this function several times in ob. and than the timers has to work. and than like in the tutorial the timer does'nt  need an db. (but i'am not sure if this is possible in s7-1200)

it sounds simple. but, i mis something perhaps you can help with a screenshot

gr gerard

Gerard,

(start of part 1 / 3)

The example you are working from is working with "S5 timers". These timers use timer addresses, typically T0 to T255. These timers can be used in the PLC range S7-300, S7-400 and S7-1500. Note S7-1200 is not included.

The problem with these timer however (as stated before) is that it is difficult to use in a code block that is suppose to be re-used (multi-instance). Another problem is that the timer addresses are limited. The answer to this is a "software" type timer. A family of "IEC-timer" instructions can be used or a user defined coding.

The S7-300, S7-400 and S7-1500 PLCs does offer the IEC-timers - for Step7 V5.x these can be found in the standard library as function blocks. These instruction FBs need memory which means it need DBs.

The S7-1200 offer no standard timer instructions other than the IEC-timers. It is something to get used to, but the advantage is that you can create as many as much as needed.

Please see the attached image.
(RED)
To call a timer FB, you simply need to drag and drop into position. When doing so, a choice can be made between single instance (pink) and multi-instance (orange). Four (4) timer types can be asked for - be sure to read the help file on each. You can also choose between a "block" instruction type (orange) or a coil type (pink). Also two special coils -(RT) and -(PT) is also included [self study!].

(PINK)
This is an example of..
 (a) "coiled" timer instruction
 (b) single instance or globally applied via a global DB
 (c) use of the output coil of the timer ("IEC_Timer_0".Q)
Note where the global DB is stored in the project. Know that you can change the name as well as the DB number - when creating the DB or even later on. The target time is set below the "coil". It is typed with a T# prefix followed by the time increment and unit. Valid value could be something like: T#1d2m3s40ms.

(ORANGE)
This is an example of..
 (a) "box" timer instruction
 (b) multi-instance or locally applied via the DB of the calling FB (FB1)
 (c) the output of the timer instruction is also the timer coil
Note the #TIMER_0 is declared in STAT declaration area like a normal variable. #TIMER_0 could also be part of an array or structure just like a INT could. You can create the "IEC_TIMER" data types before calling the timers.. just select "cancel" when the "call options" window come up and fill in the timer name later.

You can call the timer coil in a boolean contact at a later stage in the program as #TIMER_0.Q.

(end of part 1 / 3)

(start of part 2 / 3)

The "IEC_TIMER" consists of several components, as seen..

These components are documented in the S7-1200 technical manual or TIA's help file. However the most important of there are "ET" and "Q".

ET stands for elapsed time. So when calling for example #TIMER_0.ET, you will get a 32-bit sized number that gives a value in [ms]. This data type is Time. Note that ET does not go beyond the value set in PT (preset time or target time). For the S5 timer you would use example T10 as a number to get the elapsed time.

#TIMER_0.Q would be an example of the timer coil. This can be used in a contact for example. For the S5 timer for example T10, you would call T10 as a boolean in a contact.

(end part 2 / 3)

(start part 3 / 3)

Attached is an image that give a rough comparison to the IEC and S5 timers as seen in the S7-1500 PLC.

(end part 3 / 3)

---------BONUS CHAPTER

As to your next question (prediction) - what about counters?

Again the S7-1200 does not have counter addresses like the other PLC families. Again there is an IEC standards "software" version.

From my own experience.. I do not use counters - not tradisional and especially not IEC (takes up far too much memory). I rather use a number (USINT / INT / DINT /...) with instructions such as increment, decrement and compare.

---------

Was these writings of any value to you? Questions?
w

William

thanks again, before i even studied an experimented with it. i feel the need to thank you for your help. that other thing in which you helped me (sequencing) i also experimented a lot with it. and i can say that  i understand it for 75%.  to understand it full to the last bit. i have to put a lot of time in it.  for you it's probarly "piece of cake'  but for me not

but i wil study it and keep in touch

gr gerard

gerard32

William

thanks again, before i even studied an experimented with it. i feel the need to thank you for your help. that other thing in which you helped me (sequencing) i also experimented a lot with it. and i can say that  i understand it for 75%.  to understand it full to the last bit. i have to put a lot of time in it.  for you it's probarly "piece of cake'  but for me not

but i wil study it and keep in touch

gr gerard

Gerard,

Would it make you feel better                       
if I told you that I have been doing this for quite a while?             (wink)

Don't force it - take your time and work through the info..
you know where to find help if you need it.

w

william,

i studied the material, also in the other forum. That sequencing i understand with how the memory is structured. credits to your clear explanation, i really need to puzzle for it, but it goes

timers

that when the timer is a coil, if i insert it like a coil i don't get the question :'single instance" or 'multi instance' . if i type in the letter d. i can only get the option for my global data blocks.   i dont get it done like a box timer if i choose single instance, than i get "iec timer under system blocks.

strange,  but ,  iam experimentating in fb2, when i type in a 'd' ,  i can also choose to for a intance db which belongs to fb1. but than that name above my coil timer remains red

-in my test program i created some timers and stuff, tested it with plcsim.  and i monitored everything including my multi instance data block. in your explanation part 2/3 you also talk about ; ET, PT, Q etc. but there is also something like ST. (it's proberly system time of something mayby not important).  but i noticed it before that things like that remain stored in db and i wonder how i can reset tem in a db.

you say that #Timer_0 also could be a part of an array of a structure just like an int. this is a little bit strange for me.  can you explain this some more for me with perhaps an example.

thanks in advance 

gerard32

Hi Gerhard,

gerard32

...
i studied the material, also in the other forum. That sequencing i understand with how the memory is structured. credits to your clear explanation,
...

Good news. Thank you for the acknowledgement.

I am not able to handle your whole question now.
I will however handle the one piece that can be handled quickly.

gerard32

...
you say that #Timer_0 also could be a part of an array of a structure just like an int. this is a little bit strange for me.  can you explain this some more for me with perhaps an example.
...

Please see the attached image for one example.
In this example I have chosen to use this structuring for a type of
"let the way you code also document what you are doing".

There are however concrete reasons
why you will want to declare timers in an array structure.
It is possible to have...
#T.filter[1]                   >>>         #T.filter[#N]     with #N declared as an INT.
This is helpful in repeated loops.

I will not go into more detail, as this details will not help you right now.

Greetings.
w

gerard32

...
that when the timer is a coil, if i insert it like a coil i don't get the question :'single instance" or 'multi instance' .
...

 Yes I can confirm your observation. That can be "helpful" if you declared a few timers inside the FB already and you do not want to be pested by the pop-up.

gerard32

...
if i type in the letter d. i can only get the option for my global data blocks.   i dont get it done like a box timer if i choose single instance, than i get "iec timer under system blocks.

strange,  but ,  iam experimenting in fb2, when i type in a 'd' ,  i can also choose to for a instance db which belongs to fb1. but than that name above my coil timer remains red
...

gerard32

...
-in my test program i created some timers and stuff, tested it with plcsim.  and i monitored everything including my multi instance data block. in your explanation part 2/3 you also talk about ; ET, PT, Q etc. but there is also something like ST. (it's properly system time of something maybe not important).  but i noticed it before that things like that remain stored in db and i wonder how i can reset tem in a db
...

William

that system manual of the plc where can i find it. perhaps are there also tutorials available for tia13 

that array thing you explained me.  i experimented with it,  and i came to the conclusion that the only advantage of using an array in this way is that it can cut down programming time, or it organizes memory, in some way. look at my screenshot and you see my version. 

but my problem initialy came from the next manual,  if you google it "working with siemens step 7" 

for so far ik look at it,   that timer thing can not be done exactly the same in tia13 as in step7 v5.5.  i must create datablocks that come with the iec timer. 

and if you open the tutorial and go to page 92. on that page is show how you can create multiple instances of a fb, this in order to save datablock. i've tried al lot but i can't get it done. can you show me. 

gr gerard

gerard32

William

that system manual of the plc where can i find it. perhaps are there also tutorials available for tia13 

that array thing you explained me.  i experimented with it,  and i came to the conclusion that the only advantage of using an array in this way is that it can cut down programming time, or it organizes memory, in some way. look at my screenshot and you see my version. 

but my problem initialy came from the next manual,  if you google it "working with siemens step 7" 

for so far ik look at it,   that timer thing can not be done exactly the same in tia13 as in step7 v5.5.  i must create datablocks that come with the iec timer. 

and if you open the tutorial and go to page 92. on that page is show how you can create multiple instances of a fb, this in order to save datablock. i've tried al lot but i can't get it done. can you show me. 

gr gerard

Hi Gerard,

I have hoped that with all the talk you would have figured out by yourself how to solve your own question. The trouble is not Step7 V5.5 vs Step7 V13.0, but rather S7-300 vs S7-1200. The S7-1200 breaks away from some of the concepts used in S7-300.

There is nothing wrong with your opinion about the arrayed timers.. I am glad to see that you could reproduce it.

The S7-1200 System Manual can be found at [LINK].

Greetings.
w