Skip to Content

SiePortal

The integrated platform for your product selection, buying and support workflow - bringing together Industry Mall and Online Support.

SiePortalDeutsch

Search

Home
Support Support
{{(apiData.Support | filter:{'rank':1}:true)[0].title}} Support
- Menu temporary not available
- Menu temporary not available
- Menue temporary not available
- {{item.title}}

Products & Services
- Menu temporary not available
- Menue temporary not available
- {{item.title}}
Support Support
{{(apiData.Support | filter:{'rank':1}:true)[0].title}} Support
- Menu temporary not available
- Menue temporary not available
- {{item.title}}
MySiePortal MySiePortal
{{(apiData.MySiePortal | filter:{'rank':1}:true)[0].title}} MySiePortal
- Menu temporary not available
- Menue temporary not available
- {{item.title}}
Cart ({{apiData.CartCount}})

Navigation

axis smooth transition from pulled idle to GearIn

Created by: Ziemens at: 5/10/2023 1:30 PM (7 Replies)

Rating (1)

Thanks 0

8 Entries

5/10/2023 1:30 PM	Rate (0)
Ziemens Silver Member Joined: 3/2/2007 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 944 Rating: (5)	Kindly, we have two motion axis, servomotors and their S120 drives, controlled by an S7-1500T plc. The 1st axis is running continuously in speed loop, and it is pulling a paper web at constant speed. The 2nd axis is, at the beginning, idle while being pulled by the running paper. Then, after a few seconds, the 2nd axis should do GearIn to follow the 1st axis. But we have some serious fluctuations in the 2nd axis speed when we do this transition from idle to GearIn. How can we minimize these perturbations? Any special parameters in the GearIn which could help?
	... thank you ...
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/10/2023 2:27 PM	Rate (0)
BoletusEdulis Silver Member Joined: 6/10/2015 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 469 Rating: (96)	Hi, are you doing GearInSpeed on 1st axis actual values? Can you recall it is a problem of setpoint or a problem on regulation on the speed f the 2nd axis? Ziemens Kindly, we have two motion axis, servomotors and their S120 drives, controlled by an S7-1500T plc. The 1st axis is running continuously in speed loop, and it is pulling a paper web at constant speed. The 2nd axis is, at the beginning, idle while being pulled by the running paper. Then, after a few seconds, the 2nd axis should do GearIn to follow the 1st axis. But we have some serious fluctuations in the 2nd axis speed when we do this transition from idle to GearIn. How can we minimize these perturbations? Any special parameters in the GearIn which could help?
	B. Edulis --- If you have a doubt, there is no doubt
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/11/2023 5:20 AM	Rate (0)
Ziemens Silver Member Joined: 3/2/2007 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 944 Rating: (5)	The problem is that the 2nd axis is switching from free motor to geared in . So when we do this it gives some faults, because the paper is already rotating the axis, while the gearin is trying to synchonize. We are looking for some parameters, or some different logic, to have the gearin accept this previous interference from the paper. Any ideas?
	Last edited by: Ziemens at: 05/11/2023 05:20:58 Last edited by: Ziemens at: 05/11/2023 05:21:20 ... thank you ...
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/11/2023 6:18 AM	Rate (0)
BoletusEdulis Silver Member Joined: 6/10/2015 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 469 Rating: (96)	Something I did in the past for lower time constant regulation (temperature controller) was to initialize the integral part of PID regulation to the actual value, in order to, at the beginning of the regulation, let only the Kp have effect and the integral part to take into account all the "history" of the regulation it did not have. Can you follow a similar approach? Are you using Feed Forward on speed reuglation?
	B. Edulis --- If you have a doubt, there is no doubt
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/15/2023 8:46 AM	Rate (0)
Ziemens Silver Member Joined: 3/2/2007 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 944 Rating: (5)	Both position and speed loops are active . To satisfy our customer's request , we are following this sequence : start with GearIn at TorqueLimit zero , then increase the TorqueLimit gradually . But we are noticing some speed dips at this transition . We tried also to start with a position gain Kv zero , then increase it gradually along with the TorqueLimit . We reached some improvements . It looks like the dip is coming from the position loop deviation , while the torque is zero . Can we zero this deviation also ?
	... thank you ...
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/15/2023 8:50 AM	Rate (1)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 11/8/2024 Posts: 5935 Rating: (815)	Hello, the problem is, that the 2nd axis is driven by the paper. You could try this sequence. 1) Do torquelimiting Torque = 0; 8.17.3 MC_TorqueLimiting V7 (S7-1500, S7-1500T) 2) MC_Power in speed mode 8.1 MC_Power V7 (S7-1500, S7-1500T) StartMode:= 0; 3) MC_Move velocity 8.7 MC_MoveVelocity V7 (S7-1500, S7-1500T) PositionControlled:= False; 4) When velocity setpoint reached tape speed, disable torque liming and do MC_Move velocity PositionControlled:= TRUE; 5) Use MC_GearIn. https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ww/en/view/109812057
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/16/2023 7:16 AM	Rate (0)
Ziemens Silver Member Joined: 3/2/2007 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 944 Rating: (5)	Kindly, what is the difference between "Mc_Move velocity with PositionControlled true" and "Mc_GearIn" ? They both do synch position control ? Also, might the transition from "PositionControlled false" to "PositionControlled true" cause some fluctuations in the speed setpoint ?
	... thank you ...
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

5/16/2023 8:25 AM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 11/8/2024 Posts: 5935 Rating: (815)	Hello; "Mc_Move velocity with PositionControlled true" => Posirioncontroller is active)and "Mc_GearIn" ? They both do synch position control ? //Yes, both work positioncontrolled. Also, might the transition from "PositionControlled false" to "PositionControlled true" cause some fluctuations in the speed setpoint ? // The change should be during constant speed, to minimize the fluctuations.
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

|

Share this page:

Share this page on...

Related topics by keywords:

Follow us on