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FAILSAFE

Created by: Eastern at: 7/26/2009 9:02 AM (7 Replies)

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Thanks 3

8 Entries

7/26/2009 9:02 AM	Rate (0)
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)	HI SET-Team I am using a F-DO module, which is having 24 V output, but my field devices are 110 V. So if i will use relay my purpose will solve. but the problem is that the line monitoring concept will not work which is required in failsafe system.....what should i do for this problem? i want to know the various wiring posibily which are required for fail safe system according to SIL level please explain more or if have any document......... following things are need to explain 1) Line monitoring facility 2) short circut facility 3) open circut facility what is a difference between sil2 Digital input module & standard digital input module...what is sil1..... regards
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)
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7/27/2009 10:23 AM	Rate (1)
SE Support Bronze-Expert Joined: 4/17/2009 Last visit: 10/23/2024 Posts: 304 Rating: (57)	Hi Vivek, Vivek Shrivastava I am using a F-DO module, which is having 24 V output, but my field devices are 110 V. So if i will use relay my purpose will solve. but the problem is that the line monitoring concept will not work which is required in failsafe system.....what should i do for this problem? If you use an ET200s you can use the F-RO module after the F-DO. If not, you have to use one or two contactors (depends on the SIL/PL you have to reach). The monitoring has to be realized by reading back the forced, antivalent readback signal of the contactors. These readback contacts can be arranged in series. Vivek Shrivastava i want to know the various wiring posibily which are required for fail safe system according to SIL level please explain more or if have any document......... In general, the wiring for SIL1 is conform to the wiring for Cat. 2 in. acc. to old EN 954-1. For SIL 2 and 3 you have to be redundant and it´s rather conform to old Cat. 3 and 4. Detailed descriptions are written in the corresponding standards as IEC 62061. By this link, you can find a Practical Application of IEC 62061 Illustrated Using an Application Example with SIMATIC S7 Distributed Safety: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/23996473 Vivek Shrivastava what is a difference between sil2 Digital input module & standard digital input module...what is sil1..... The SIL2/SIL3 modules are internally redundant and they are certificated in acc. to IEC 62061 / EN ISO 13849. I hope we could help. Best regards Set - Team
	Last edited by: SET-Team at: 7/27/2009 10:24 AM SE Support Safety Evaluation with TIA Selection Tool - Much more than just an assessment of safety functions https://www.siemens.com/safety-evaluation
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Eastern

7/27/2009 7:56 PM	Rate (1)
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)	HI SET-Team Thanks for reply...... i am using ET 200M type module,software is CFC type & FH configuration... can you explain me more about one or two contactors like some electrical drawing or some document. is these contactors require SIL 3 certified.i am using a sil3 system. what is the meaning of internally redundant? following things are need to explain 1) Line monitoring facility 2) short circut facility 3) open circut facility if i consider wire break in sil2 input & sil3 input(2 input), how will i achieve?
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)
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7/31/2009 9:57 AM	Rate (3)
SE Support Bronze-Expert Joined: 4/17/2009 Last visit: 10/23/2024 Posts: 304 Rating: (57)	Vivek Shrivastava Thanks for reply...... i am using ET 200M type module,software is CFC type & FH configuration... can you explain me more about one or two contactors like some electrical drawing or some document. is these contactors require SIL 3 certified.i am using a sil3 system. Hello Vivek, CFC & FH is process automation. The SET is just available for factory automation at the moment. Therfor, please contact your responsible sales manager. To your other questions: Internally redundant means internally two-channeled. 1) Line monitoring facility I assume you mean the monitoring of contactors by feedback. Here, the NC contacts L1, L2, L3 are monitored by an antivalent (NO) contact, which is forced to switch whenever L1, L2, L3, switch. So you can check if the contactor has an error or not. To monitor a number of contactors, you can wire these feedback contacts in series. 2) short circut facility The special case here is the cross circuit monitoring. Here, both signals have a pulsed signal. Hereby, the pulsing of signal 1 occurs earlier than the pulsing of signal 2. If a cross circuit occurs, the both pulsings modify the signal. This modification is detected by the evaluation unit. 3) open circut facility Here, test signals (dark and light tests) are performed of the module. If there occurs a wire break, the module detects this. 4)if i consider wire break in sil2 input & sil3 input(2 input), how will i achieve? See answer two. There are testing outputs on the module, which supply the sensors. These testing signals are the considered pulsed signals. From the sensors, you wire the signal in the digital input module. I hope this helps. Best regards SET Team
	Last edited by: SET-Team at: 7/31/2009 9:58 AM SE Support Safety Evaluation with TIA Selection Tool - Much more than just an assessment of safety functions https://www.siemens.com/safety-evaluation
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Eastern

8/1/2009 1:53 PM	Rate (0)
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)	HI YES i am using a process automation project, but this method,two contactor use in series is possible or not to implement in process automation. regards
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)
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8/3/2009 10:28 AM	Rate (0)
SE Support Bronze-Expert Joined: 4/17/2009 Last visit: 10/23/2024 Posts: 304 Rating: (57)	Hello Vivek, Yes, you canuse two contactors in series in a process automation application.
	Last edited by: SET-Team at: 8/3/2009 10:28 AM SE Support Safety Evaluation with TIA Selection Tool - Much more than just an assessment of safety functions https://www.siemens.com/safety-evaluation
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users PavM

8/3/2009 10:54 AM	Rate (0)
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)	HI SET-Team THANK A LOT......
Eastern Posts: 557 Rating: (64)
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8/10/2009 5:32 AM	Rate (0)
ABN Posts: 212 Rating: (12)	Hi Eastern, I would like to answer first query raised by you..about using relays with F-DO system. Yes definetely you can use the SIL- Rated Relay which makes you able to use the F-Functionality for the entire system. Phonex is one of the manufcaturer of these kinds of relays.One of the type is PSR-SCP-24DC/ESP4/2X1/1X2. Also Siemens Make Safety Relay No is : 3TK28 21-1CB30 Thanks, ABN
ABN Posts: 212 Rating: (12)
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