Dear experts,

I searched through many threads on this forum and in the Siemens documentation.

It is about multiplexing of the process tags in WinCC Advanced in TIA Portal.

I am busy with the project consisting of S71500 CPU (1511-1) en TP1200 HMI. Programmed in TIA Portal V15. I would like to take the advantage of the newest development within Siemens group.

S7-1500 PLC can work fully "symbolically" and that means that we do not have to use any numbers anymore, because the name is leading. We do not get address offsets and all the locations of the data can be just fully name-oriented. Very nice, because the name is the name, so if I change something in my block structure, the name will be recognized anyway.

Thus if my "Motor1" data block has a number 10 (DB10 - yes, the blocks still get the numbers) and "start" bit in this block is my start bit, then I can just acces the data, this particular bit, by typing "Motor1.Start". I don't care what the DB number is (TIA Portal will self create the number). 

But the typical data access seen out of the block is still like: "datablock_name.data_name", also in the HMI. And we cannot use the data block name as a multiplex value!

If I want to for instance create one settings screen for the 20 motors and the data on this screen should correspond with the proper DB I have to still use the numbers (INT, SINT, DINT, USINT only allowed). Why? Why?

All in the Siemens world goes in the way of name-oriented programming, but is stops abruptly on this point, overlapping of the PLC and visualization (HMI) world.

Either I have to create the way to read the name and convert it into the number or search for another creative way to combine this. What means always "additional tables / reference lists" and that kind of things that always bring additional work and problems. I want to be independent from the DB numbers and addresses.

Is there any idea how to elegantly solve this obstacle? Ideally I would like to name my things how they are called (Motor1, Valve013) and use as much as possible multiplexing in order to create one field / screen for multiple-used components. I would like to think and program in names! In symbols, in names only!

Any thoughts you want to share?

Hallo YY.F,

And then? What can I achieve by this? Where I can use the DB name created in the PLC as a reference for the multiplexing? 

Because when you create your FB "motor" or "valve", you create (or do it) a struct with all the tags you need...

You link your FB with your struct... that's it.

Faceplate is an easy way to create a screen, or part of screen, linked to a structure

You will have something like this :

FB <-> Structure <-> Faceplate

To multiplex, simply store your structure in an array

You can see an exemple here :
https://www.dmcinfo.com/latest-thinking/blog/id/9136/linking-plc-udt-tags-to-hmi-faceplates-and-pop-ups-in-tia-portal-v13-sp1

Or in video here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmvq4rE0NM4



The advantage of doing this (structure in the library, linked to FB and faceplate) , is :
If you have to evolve your function, you will modify your struct, that can be upgrade to FB and Faceplate
You valid both, and that's it. 

Dear sixthomas,

Thank you for your input. Last two days I have been testing different options with Faceplates. Since I had almost no any experience with faceplates and use of them seemed a bit exotic to me, I wanted (inspired by you :-) ) to once learn all about them and search out the possibility and limits.

And I looked into the article of DMC and I watched the YT movie posted by you.

Unfortunately this is not what I need. It cannot be used to replace the multiplexing in the meaning of "multiplexing" we want to use. 

To clariyfy the issue, once more: we would like use (in some smart way) the process tag names as a leading value when creating / adding / managing the components of our installations. A component could be a valve, motor, inverter, tank, pressure transmitter, temperature transmitter, flow transmitter, heater and many other custom made object. Basically any components is a standard FB (or it could be an FC too), and has to contain a data (so FC with shared DB  or FB with its instance DB).

The name of a DB (instance DB for instance) could be the component name or the position in an array could be this name (array index is a number but it is also a name of the component since all the devices have an unique number / process tag). So we could multiplex on DB name or array index (maybe there is a third possibility?). 

Problems:

- biggest problem - cannot use a name (string) as multiplexed value/tag, is has to be a number (int/sint/usint/dint)

- faceplates do not work with multiplexed data with symbolic access ( yesterday tested it, they will not work) They do, but only if the DB has no "optimized access" and I work with absolute access.

- 64kB = 65536B of a maximum length of an DB makes it impossible to cover a lot of possible process tags (If I want to "emulate" multiplexing on a name using in fact a number being my flowsheet tag I need to "pre-program" a DB with a very large Array. Very quickly the limit of 64kB stops me.

- if I try to divide the ranges in many DB's then my work memory oft the PLC is insufficient. 

Any try to "emulate" multiplexing with the flowsheet tag name as a multiplex value is working in 80% in  the best case. There is always a limit somewhere.

There is a different idea given by one of my colleagues:

Maybe I have to go to WinCC Professional V14SP1 / V15 and panel Pro / Panel PC with Professional Runtime which gives much more possibilities? Maybe some smart C script? As far we tried only to achieve our goal  in TP900 / TP1200 Comfort (standard screens that we always use).

We decided to work on the old way - we go back to absolute addressing and we use DB number as an multiplexed value. HMI wil acces the data with absolute access. This is really a way used already 15-20 years ago with S7- 300CPU. I am surprised that I cannot really significantly improve it with the newest generation of the S7-1500PLC, Comfort screens (TP1200) and  the latest TIA Portal software.

-> I think TIA V14 can do it, but I don't use it yet... (I'm am with V13)
https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/fr/fr/posts/one-faceplate-for-multiple-valves/179227/?page=0&pageSize=10
https://www.dmcinfo.com/latest-thinking/blog/id/9345/multiplexing-arrays-of-udts-in-tia-portal-v14

-> If I understand what you write, you create a big DB with a big array of struct, but don't use all the range of the array ?
I have to request....why doing this ?

If I understand, you want to create a DB every time you use a function, in this case for every project, you have XXDB for each XX valve you use.
DB is creating when you drag/drop the function

After this, you want in the visualization, create a single faceplate that is multiplexed to that every DB, and use the name for this

With my knowledge, it's not possible, and with absolute adress multiplexing the DB itself...
Perhaps with a VBscript, that search the name of the DB in the cpu, extract the number and go on...

BUT, you can multiplex an array :

you can pre-create DB"valve" with an array in-it, and you have to change the max range of this DB for every project
Another DB"motor"  etc...

Or, for example, create an FB"50valve" where you declare 50 valve in it. And declare each instance in the static tag array of. and create a FB"100valve"  etc...

If you don't want a number to change the index, you can use a text-list that will assigne a 'string' to a number (your index multiplex)

I think, don't use array is a big lost, you can't use multiplex, you can't copy/paste instance to another instance (for example  parameters you need)...
The only disadvantage is to work with a single number (your index) instead of a string...

Last thing, If you have some issues with "lag" in the HMI, you will be interested by :

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/fr/fr/posts/best-use-of-udt-fb-faceplate/187568/?page=0&pageSize=10

The fact is, if you want a modular program that is "ready to go", and just use the HMI to start the machine (no need to program with TIA).... I don't find the solution except create your own programm with a PC...
I don't see lots of project where I don't need to use my TIA

Dear sixthomas,

'With my knowledge, it's not possible, and with absolute adress multiplexing the DB itself...
Perhaps with a VBscript, that search the name of the DB in the cpu, extract the number and go on..."

Is there an option to do it in VBScript? That would be fine too.

I could work like with a "parameter files" (What AllenBradley actually does with its Factory Talk HMI software):

Lets say I have a motor M002424. All setting of the motor in the instance DB like:

max setpoint: "M002424".Admin.Settings.SP_MAX (data type real)

min setpoint: "M002424".Admin.Settings.SP_MIN (data type real)

name: "M002424".Admin.Settings.TAGNAME (data type string)

enz...

Then I create internal HMI tags:

#1 (type real)

#2 (type real)

#3 (type string)

enz. these would be my "parameters"

I could also create an internal tag "NAME" of type String. Any time I can create a button to configure my component, that by pressing would do two things:

- set my component name in "NAME", like motor - M002424 into the "NAME" (this works fine)

- Perform the Script M002424

And in this script I have to do this:

Dim Index         // creating the tag Index that would be my component name = data block name

Index = NAME  // writing the M002424 into the Index tag

#1 = "M002424".Admin.Settings.SP_MAX

#2 = "M002424".Admin.Settings.SP_MIN

#3 = "M002424".Admin.Settings.TAGNAME

// the only thing is, I have to make "M002424" dynamic, replace it with Index.

// on  this way If I make on my HMI screen a config screen with IO fields with #1, #2, #3 .... enz. parameters, and any time clicking on the component I would say #1 is in the DB of this particular component by saying: look in DB named "M002424" for motor M002424.

I tried by it is not simply done, if I make a tag with a symbolic access:

tag M002424_Admin_Settings_SP_MAX (name) which corresponds with M002424.Admin.Settings.SP_MAX (PLC tag) I cannot just replace M002424_  or M002424. with Index in the script, to do it I would need to learn much more about replacing, pointers and indirect addressing in VBScript.

Searched here:  https://www.w3schools.com/asp/func_replace.asp

and here:  https://riteshbawaskar.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/pointers-in-vbscript/

and here:  https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/26981592/Pointers-in-VBScript.html

but still cannot figure out whether it is possible what I want. Perhaps it is not possible.