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3 circuit thermal solar system - HELP WITH CONTROL

Created by: Kukis at: 2/28/2023 1:54 PM (14 Replies)

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2/28/2023 1:54 PM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	Good day. I would need to control 3 hydraulic circuits through a motorized valve and one pump with the option of setting the priority of the circuit on the LOGO! It should work so that the user through LOGO! assigns a priority (1-3) to each circuit. To be able to determine the order in which individual circuits will be heated from thermal solar collectors (AI4-T4) For example: First circuit (Tank1, AI1-T1, desired temperature 30°C) output Q1 – priority 1 (heats as the third) The second circuit (Tank2, AI2-T2, desired temperature 50°C) output Q2 – priority 2 (heats as the second) Third circuit (Tank3, AI3-T3, required temperature 70°C) output Q3 – priority 3 (heats first) Q1-Q3 = signal for motorized valve Q4 = starting the solar pump (Q4 must be switched on only when one of the outputs Q1-Q3 is switched on) At the same time, however, it is necessary for it to work in such a way that when the solar collectors start to heat up Tank3 according to priority 3 first (only output Q3 and Q4 are switched on) and the output of the collectors is not sufficient to heat Tank3 to the required temperature of 70°C and only equalization occurs temperature, for example 60°C (T3=T4), so that only output Q2 and Q4 are triggered (priority 2) but only for the set TIME 1 time (for example 15 minutes) and after the TIME 1 time expires, all Q1-Q4 outputs are switched off for the set time TIME 2 (for example 5 minutes) during which it will be waited to see if the temperature of the collectors T4 does not rise above the temperature T3 (60°C). If after the expiration of TIME 2 (5 minutes) the temperature of the T4 collectors is higher than the temperature of T3, then only the output Q3 and Q4 will be switched on again until the temperatures equalize (T3=T4) or until the desired temperature of 70°C in Tank3 is reached . But if after the TIME 2 period (5 minutes) the temperature of the collectors T4 is not higher than the temperature in Tank3 T3 (60°C), the output of only Q2 and Q4 will be restarted with the repetition of TIME1 and TIME2 cycles. However, if, during heating, the temperature T2 in Tank2 only equals the temperature in the collectors T4 (T2=T4), then it is necessary to start only the outputs Q1 and Q4 for the set period TIME1 (15 minutes) and after the expiration of TIME 1, all outputs Q1-Q4 will turn off for the set period of TIME 2 (5 minutes), during which time it will wait to see if the temperature of the T4 collectors does not rise above the temperature of T2 or above the temperature of T3. If, after TIME 2 (5 minutes), the temperature of the T4 collectors is higher than the temperature of T2 in Tank2 or T3 in Tank3, only the output Q2 and Q4 or only the output Q3 and Q4 will be switched on, depending on the current temperature of the T4 collectors. But if, after TIME 2 (5 minutes), the temperature of collectors T4 is not higher than the temperature in T2 in Tank2, only the output Q1 and Q4 will start again, repeating the TIME1 and TIME2 cycles until the temperature of T1 in Tank1 is equalized with the temperature in T4 collectors. I hope I have sufficiently explained the logic of how it should work. It's just that LOGO! it waited in vain for Tank3 to heat up to the required temperature (70°C), when the power of the solar collectors is not enough for that anyway, but it is at least enough to heat up one of the other circuits and at the same time to stop pump Q4 every 15 minutes (TIME1) at 5 minutes (TIME2) and waited to see if the output of the collectors would increase and he could heat again according to priority in this example of Tank3 (there may be increased cloudiness or at sunset and sunrise when the sun's radiation is weaker). It's just that the program doesn't just wait for the request to be fulfilled and only then, after it is fulfilled, will it start heating the next circuit (because that might not happen for several days). TIME1 and TIME2 is also important in the morning when the temperature of solar collectors T4 would already be higher than the current temperature of T3 (for example 60°C) in Tank3 and it should already start heating Tank3, but without waiting for TIME2 the temperature of the collectors would not realistically rise above the value of 60 °C, because they would still be subcooled by another, for example, the first circuit with a current temperature of 25°C, which would still subcool the solar collectors to a temperature of approximately 40°C, and thus the motorized valve would not switch to the circuit with priority 3 or with priority 2. I would like to know if it is even possible to do such a program in LSC. Could someone please help me with this. Me with LOGO! I work as a hobby user and I don't have enough experience to be able to compare 4 temperatures in LSC. Or at least show me the right direction with some simplified program in LSC. I can't even begin with 4 temperatures. Thank you very much for every answer.
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 03/01/2023 08:47:23 Text formatting optimized.
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2/28/2023 1:59 PM	Rate (0)
ixo65 Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 12/18/2014 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 34149 Rating: (4254)	Compare 4 temperatures? Compare to what? At the highest temperature? At the lowest temperature?

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2/28/2023 7:05 PM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	Compare the temperature of collectors T4 with temperatures T1, T2, T3. T1 measures the temperature in tank 1 - circuit 1, motorized valve connected to Q1 T2 measures the temperature in tank 2 - circuit 2, motorized valve connected to Q2 T3 measures the temperature in tank 3 - circuit 3, motorized valve connected to Q3 So, when the temperature of the collectors T4 is greater than the temperature T1 in tank 1, the solar pump is started via output Q4 and at the same time another output Q1 is switched on, from which a signal will go to the motorized valve so that the liquid from the collectors starts flowing through circuit 1 and starts heating it. Outputs Q1 and Q4 are turned on until tank 1 heats up to the required temperature or both temperatures T4 and T1 are equalized If the temperature of the collectors T4 is greater than all temperatures T1 to T3, the solar pump Q4 and one of the outputs Q1 to Q3 will be switched on according to priority. If circuit 1 is assigned the highest priority, pump Q4 and output Q1 will start If the temperature of the collectors is lower than the temperatures T1 to T3, then not a single output Q will be switched on. I did the same with two circuits, but I don't know how to start with three. I am attaching a file with two circuits Attachment 2CS2.zip (676 Downloads)
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 03/01/2023 08:48:09 Text formatting optimized.
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2/28/2023 7:10 PM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	Once again attachment via winrar Q4 is solar pump Attachment 2CS2.zip (569 Downloads)
	Last edited by: Kukis at: 02/28/2023 19:11:53
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3/1/2023 5:12 AM	Rate (0)
qwazee Platinum Member Joined: 3/30/2020 Last visit: 11/6/2024 Posts: 4930 Rating: (1008)	Hello. A project like this has a trap that wants to hold you hostage. Avoid doing everything all at once. Break the project into smaller portions. You can even go as far as writing smaller programs which you can easier test in simulation. My idea follows as example. There are x2 processes. The parent process and x3 child processes. The parent process tells the child to do its job and the child reports back when its done. PARENT: STARTING THE FILL This is where the sequence of the tank filling is done. The user starts the process. This sequence control then make turns between the tanks in order of the priority. This is the parent process. The child process lets the parent know when its task is done. The parent can then start the next child process. In simulation, the parent starts the child process (x3) with an output; the child process (x3) reports back a 'done' state by an input. CHILD: FILLING A TANK This process control will be repeated x3. It is started by the parent. It tells the parent when its task is done. The 'done' state is reached when one of 4 conditions are made: 1) Reach the preset setpoint temperature 2) Reach the measured supply temperature when the preset setpoint is higher than supply temperature 3) The measured temperature in the tank is higher than the supply temperature 4) The child process has been busy for too long. The above process may even be placed in a UDF. It directly controls its own valve but share (OR-gate) control for the master valve. The parent starting signal is as input and the 'done' state is as output. In the main circuit x3 UDF blocks will be placed and connected. HELPER: SWITCH MASTER VALVE An optional process can handle the smooth switch over of the master valve. The master valve may need to be closed before opening the valve associated with the tank. Working through smaller process controls will make it easier to wipe out the bugs. Also having a conversation in the forum may be more smooth. What are your thoughts? ~
	Last edited by: qwazee at: 03/01/2023 05:13:57 Last edited by: qwazee at: 03/01/2023 05:14:26 Last edited by: qwazee at: 03/01/2023 05:15:18 better format Activities of this user is voluntary. There is no obligation or liability placed on this user. Though optional, your 'please' and 'thank you' is highly valued.
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Kukis

3/1/2023 7:22 AM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	Hi, thanks for your reply I didn't look at it that way, I always dealt with everything as a whole, which I kept adding to. It is a new impetus for me to continue this project. This means I will have to start from scratch and break away from the original program. It will be a thorny road for me as a hobby user, but in any case, thanks for the guidance. If you can think of anything else that could help me, I would be grateful.
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 03/01/2023 08:49:27 Text formatting optimized.
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3/2/2023 4:43 AM	Rate (0)
qwazee Platinum Member Joined: 3/30/2020 Last visit: 11/6/2024 Posts: 4930 Rating: (1008)	Kukis Hi, thanks for your reply I didn't look at it that way, I always dealt with everything as a whole, which I kept adding to. It is a new impetus for me to continue this project. This means I will have to start from scratch and break away from the original program. It will be a thorny road for me as a hobby user, but in any case, thanks for the guidance. If you can think of anything else that could help me, I would be grateful. You are being overly dramatic. I can see from your sample program that you have good ideas and have the skill. You only need a nudge in the right direction. Copying sections out of what you have is not like starting over. There is not much to start with anyway. Else consider hiring someone to do this side of your hobby for you. The volunteers of this forum may be more effective in helping if you have smaller pieces of code that needs tweaking. We volunteers are very willing to help, but it is unfair to expect us to complete the program for you. It is my hope that you see these notes as constructive criticism from which good results flow. Good luck.
	Activities of this user is voluntary. There is no obligation or liability placed on this user. Though optional, your 'please' and 'thank you' is highly valued.
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Kukis

3/2/2023 12:06 PM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	I didn't even expect that someone would make the program for me exactly as I need it, and it wouldn't even be good for me because I wouldn't understand it and I wouldn't be able to make changes myself as needed. But it would definitely help me if someone showed me his idea, if someone has done something like that. And I agree with your criticism because it is best if a person does it himself, then I will be able to navigate the program better and it will be easier for me to expand the program with new functions. So I'm going to try to create something and when I get stuck again, I'll turn to this forum. And thank you once again
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 03/03/2023 06:52:19 Text formatting optimized.
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3/4/2023 8:49 PM	Rate (0)
MartijnHinderdael Joined: 10/5/2022 Last visit: 12/7/2023 Posts: 35 Rating: (0)	Like you I am working on a hobby project that turned out a bit larger and more complex than expected upfront. I have at one stage decided to do a big cleanup of my program to be able to progress further on. One thing that really helps me focus and make decisions is to name as much blocks as possible with a name that somehow summarizes or hints to what the block does for your system. Next to that I put in a lot of comments next to every place appropriate elaborating on why I made a decision to put that block there and what the reasoning behind the chosen input parameters is. To me it is impossible to keep track of every block in my scheme so I need this (my scheme is a lot bigger than yours but I did decided to do so from the very start because keeping track of multiple things at once just isn't among my talents).
	Last edited by: MartijnHinderdael at: 03/04/2023 20:51:53
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3/10/2023 6:03 AM	Rate (0)
Kukis Joined: 5/27/2022 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 21 Rating: (0)	Hi My two-circuit program was supposed to show you how I think about it so that someone could advise me whether I am doing it correctly or if it could be done easier and better when creating a new three-circuit program. So for the time being, I deleted the priority switching part from that program and extended it with another temperature of the third circuit. Now I am working on, or finishing, from my point of view, the most complicated second part, which will switch individual circuits between themselves according to the user's request, how he sets his priorities, just as I described the functionality in the first post, which probably seems confusing :) I try to do it as QWAZZE guided me so that the program consists of individual parts. I think I'm going in the right direction. When I have the program ready, I will share it here. Then I would also like to see your program to see someone else's ideas :)
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 03/10/2023 10:38:04 Text formatting optimized.
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