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Machine room with Logo! 8 and Basic-Comfort HMI

Created by: Emir Čeliković at: 3/27/2023 9:28 AM (9 Replies)

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3/27/2023 9:28 AM	Rate (0)
Emir Čeliković Joined: 3/26/2023 Last visit: 11/4/2024 Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	Hi all, this is the best place for advice and/or suggestion and thank you all for that. I want to make project for machine room of the family house! (5 motor-pumps, 2 hydrostatic and/or ultrasonic probes for level measurement, 2 water heaters, few recirculation pumps, 2 pressure switches, desalinizer, several temperature sensors, etc.). It's fine with the S7-1200, but I haven't tried to do it with LOGO! 8 so far. LOGO! 8 should have no problem with this configuration? In addition, I would make a process visualization with the panel and please, answer, if Basic is enough or should I go with Comfort panel (let's say MP1200 Comfort)? Nothing special, it would show the status of pumps, probes, levels, pressure, temperature on the screen. As an inspiration for additional ideas and solutions, please if anyone has a schematic of the engine room for similar applications? Ultimately, I plan to connect all this with the KNX system of the house, and ultimately with the solar system that will provide conditions for KNX, and KNX (activation of stages-parts of the installation, depending on power consumption) according to the LOGO! 8/HMI system, but those are the next topics... Thank you very much

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3/27/2023 10:26 AM	Rate (0)
ixo65 Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 12/18/2014 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 34159 Rating: (4255)	Your request is too general. Have you already dealt with the LOGO! at all? Do you know the limit of the inputs and outputs (digital and analog)?The LOGO! can communicate with a basic HMI from Siemens without any problems.

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This contribution was helpful to 2 thankful Users Emir Čeliković qwazee

3/27/2023 8:55 PM	Rate (0)
Emir Čeliković Joined: 3/26/2023 Last visit: 11/4/2024 Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	Ixo65, thank you on your quick response. I purposely stated the question in general for the reason of getting an opinion, whether it is possible to realize such a project. For example, I worked on a project where I used a high speed counter on both LOGO and S7-1200. I additionally loaded plcs with other resources, i.e. hardware and software requirements. The result was that LOGO sometimes blocked from working even though I was going with 80% of his possibilities, so LOGO should have done it with ease, but it didn't in these circumstances and it's something that is not written in the books. The S7-1200 did it all with ease, of course. The general manner of my question is also for the reason that there are a lot of experts on the forum with a lot of experience that enables them to sublimate the entire project and assess whether it can all be done with specific equipment which I mentioned. The answer to both of your questions is yes, but it's about, all of us saving each other's effort and time, selflessly, with our experience in working with a specific configuration of equipment. About HMI, thank for that answer, I know that LOGO work fine with Basic hmi, but, please, I do not try LOGO with Comfort panel. LOGO work fine with Comfort panel too? Thank you. I appreciate your effort.

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3/28/2023 3:46 AM	Rate (0)
ixo65 Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 12/18/2014 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 34159 Rating: (4255)	I see that a little differently. How is anyone supposed to tell if your project is on the LOGO! can be implemented if he does not know how many: - digital inputs - digital outputs - analog inputs - analog outputs are needed in the project. One (1) LOGO! 0BA8 can manage the following: - 24 digital inputs - 20 digital outputs - 8 analogue inputs - 8 analogue outputs If more of one of the 4 pieces of information is required, a second LOGO! needed. Therefore, I think it is very important to know the exact scope of the project. Of course you can have a different opinion. But I'm not going to tell you it works (or it doesn't work). The LOGO! works also with a Comfort panel.

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3/28/2023 4:58 AM	Rate (0)
qwazee Platinum Member Joined: 3/30/2020 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 4932 Rating: (1008)	So you see, I agree with Mr. ixo65: Only you can determine what your needs are. Some general thoughts are the only thing we can give. MP1200 Comfort? Unified Comfort Panel MTP1200? Ouch! To me it sounds as if you have money to burn. Do you want volunteers to rubber stamp your expenditure? This thought is unwarranted, but this is what comes forward when not having the right type of information to work with. Wanting a 12inch screen could be very telling. You may have a visually complicated process which needs scripting. But then the LOGO! programmable relay may not be enough. Perhaps you may just want a big display. A Basic HMI can do that too. But so can building a web page and run it on a credit card sized PC. But then why not automate everything on PC based controls? The LOGO! does not like complexities, as you already know. But the LOGO! brings connectivity advantages that is hard to come by in any other way. You could network a LOGO! and S7-1200. Or network a LOGO! and a PC (Modbus TCP or Snap7). You need to consider what complexities you want in the visualization process. Then comes the complexities (and speed of processing) of the control. Thereafter follows the connectivity. What are your thoughts?
	Last edited by: qwazee at: 03/28/2023 05:15:20 Activities of this user is voluntary. There is no obligation or liability placed on this user. Though optional, your 'please' and 'thank you' is highly valued.
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3/31/2023 4:55 PM	Rate (0)
Emir Čeliković Joined: 3/26/2023 Last visit: 11/4/2024 Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	ixo65 I see that a little differently. How is anyone supposed to tell if your project is on the LOGO! can be implemented if he does not know how many: - digital inputs - digital outputs - analog inputs - analog outputs are needed in the project. One (1) LOGO! 0BA8 can manage the following: - 24 digital inputs - 20 digital outputs - 8 analogue inputs - 8 analogue outputs If more of one of the 4 pieces of information is required, a second LOGO! needed. Therefore, I think it is very important to know the exact scope of the project. Of course you can have a different opinion. But I'm not going to tell you it works (or it doesn't work). The LOGO! works also with a Comfort panel. I don't need any guarantee, I'm just interested in your opinion, without any obligations, of course. I inserted in attach a table with specific data related to the project. and what do you think? About panel, KTP900 Basic goes, of course, About KNX and Modbus, I will use CMK2000 and CIM. I will have on LOGO1: 21 I, 8 Q, 4 AI. On LOGO2: 14 I, 12 Q, 2 AI. That's about it. Regarding the visualization requirements, nothing special, as I mentioned, just static objects, lights, two-color device icons and such. In your opinion, Logo shouldn't be stuck with this I/O configuration? Regarding Calculating memory space and requirements, as well as circuit program size, I am paying close attention to that and that item will be quite well optimized... I will let you know how the system will behave in practice... Attachment Project scope.xlsx (397 Downloads)

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3/31/2023 5:03 PM	Rate (0)
ixo65 Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 12/18/2014 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 34159 Rating: (4255)	Dardem I don't need any guarantee, I'm just interested in your opinion, without any obligations, of course. I will have on LOGO1: 21 I, 8 Q, 4 AI. On LOGO2: 14 I, 12 Q, 2 AI. That's about it. Guarantee became you in the forum from helping users so or so not. We become no money for helping, so you become no guarantee ... In your first post you don't write that you will use 2 LOGO!s ... Also you don't write which type of LOGO! you will use ...

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3/31/2023 5:06 PM	Rate (0)
Emir Čeliković Joined: 3/26/2023 Last visit: 11/4/2024 Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	qwazee So you see, I agree with Mr. ixo65: Only you can determine what your needs are. Some general thoughts are the only thing we can give. MP1200 Comfort? Unified Comfort Panel MTP1200? Ouch! To me it sounds as if you have money to burn. Do you want volunteers to rubber stamp your expenditure? This thought is unwarranted, but this is what comes forward when not having the right type of information to work with. Wanting a 12inch screen could be very telling. You may have a visually complicated process which needs scripting. But then the LOGO! programmable relay may not be enough. Perhaps you may just want a big display. A Basic HMI can do that too. But so can building a web page and run it on a credit card sized PC. But then why not automate everything on PC based controls? The LOGO! does not like complexities, as you already know. But the LOGO! brings connectivity advantages that is hard to come by in any other way. You could network a LOGO! and S7-1200. Or network a LOGO! and a PC (Modbus TCP or Snap7). You need to consider what complexities you want in the visualization process. Then comes the complexities (and speed of processing) of the control. Thereafter follows the connectivity. What are your thoughts? I also agree with mr. ixo65, my first approach was a little misdirected Not related to that, I think it is a good practice if I do several projects and each with its own equipment, and especially if the equipment is of different price and quality range, why not try unusual combinations of equipment before implementation? Who knows when we will have the opportunity to repeat such a thing? Regarding your suggestions, they are inspiring ideas, thank you. I would like a large screen because I have a house for the project and a large property around it with pumps, valves, lights, and I don't like the user switching a lot between screens. Regarding volunteers, for now I am in a positive balance...

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3/31/2023 5:20 PM	Rate (0)
Emir Čeliković Joined: 3/26/2023 Last visit: 11/4/2024 Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	ixo65 Dardem I don't need any guarantee, I'm just interested in your opinion, without any obligations, of course. I will have on LOGO1: 21 I, 8 Q, 4 AI. On LOGO2: 14 I, 12 Q, 2 AI. That's about it. Guarantee became you in the forum from helping users so or so not. We become no money for helping, so you become no guarantee ... In your first post you don't write that you will use 2 LOGO!s ... Also you don't write which type of LOGO! you will use ... Yes, sorry, I planned to use two LOGO in master-master configuration. LOGO! 24RCE, latest generation (LOGO! 8.3) will be used.

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3/31/2023 5:31 PM	Rate (0)
ixo65 Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 12/18/2014 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 34159 Rating: (4255)	Dardem Yes, sorry, I planned to use two LOGO in master-master configuration. LOGO! 24RCE, latest generation (LOGO! 8.3) will be used. If you planed with 24 VDC ... Then I would use the LOGO! 12/24 RCE. This LOGO! has 4 inputs (I1+I2+I7+I8) that you can use as analog inputs (0-10V). There can use external transductors for PT100/1000 with 0-10V or 0/4-20mA output. This can be cheaper as the AM2 RTD (only 2 channels). For 4 PT100/1000 you need 2 AM2 RTD.

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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Emir Čeliković

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