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FO DP-Network

Created by: Aret at: 8/15/2008 12:37 PM (10 Replies)

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8/15/2008 12:37 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Dear all! I have some questions, related to fiber-optics network (copper is not possible). We are planning system with 4 nodes with following reuirements. Construction: CPU315 (Master1)--------\| \| \| 500m \| \| \| ET200S (Slave1) \| \| \| 500m 1500 meters \| \| ET200S (Slave2) \| \| \| 500m \| \| \| CPU315(Master2) \| \|_____________\| Functions: ET200S werechosenbecauseonly5-10DI/DO signalsrequiresfromthesestations. EACHmaster should be able to acquise EACH slave. Moreover they should communicate with each other. Topology logically must be ring - i.e. 1 break shouldn't produse any communication loss Solutioni'mthinkingabout: Equip masters with CP342-5 and take ET200S/CPU as slaves. ThenS7-communicationsolvesallproblems. As FO-components take OLMs (implement ring topology+diagnostics+large distance). So i have few questions: 1) Can i use ET200S-FO/CPU without OLM? (2 OLMs+2ET200-FO) - would it be ring? 2) Can i useCP342-5FOwithoutOLM?I met restriction about 300meters max. to next station - can i improve this distance with something (as repeater)? Would it be ring? 3) Can i use both 1) and 2)? 4) Can we use ordinary ET200S-FO (not CPU) and implement connections as master/slave? Maybe there is a better solution - then i would be gratefull for any ideas.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Last edited by: Aret at: 8/15/2008 12:43 PM Last edited by: Aret at: 8/15/2008 12:41 PM
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8/15/2008 1:28 PM	Rate (1)
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)	Dear Aret, please let me try to answer your questions: 1) Can i use ET200S-FO/CPU without OLM? (2 OLMs+2ET200-FO) - would it be ring? A: No, because the FO interfaces of the ET200S, independent if it is a CPU or a standard slave is not for FO but for plastic fiberor PCF. Needless to say that this interface is incompatible to OLM P and OLM G. The Plugs used in here are also not BFOC plugs. 2) Can i useCP342-5FOwithoutOLM?I met restriction about 300meters max. to next station - can i improve this distance with something (as repeater)? Would it be ring? A: The Interface for the CP 342-5 is only allowed for line topology. You only may use this with OBT units, OLM are not possible. 3) Can i use both 1) and 2)? See above. 4) Can we use ordinary ET200S-FO (not CPU) and implement connections as master/slave? A: The Standard ET200S Slave is a DP Slave and can be used either with CPU DP Master or CP DP Master. A communication between two DP Slaves is not possible. I hope I could help a bit. Best regards J_Bell
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)
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8/15/2008 3:33 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Thanks, J_Bell, very informative answer. Only 1 thing is not so clear to me: In PROFIBUS networks slavecan"belong"toseveralmasters. Thatpropertyisachievedviasendingbroadcast/milticastmessages. Can these things be implemented in S7? I mean configuring slave in such way, that allows few masters to listen it. PS. Exchange between slaves is not required.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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8/15/2008 4:00 PM	Rate (0)
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)	Dear Aret, I have to admit I am not sure what you talk about. Do you refer on DP MCL2 functions of a MCL2 Master, or PROFIBUS DP - Direct Data Exchange I am not sure... I have to admit. Best regards J_Bell
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)
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8/16/2008 11:43 AM	Rate (1)
jklm Platinum Member Joined: 12/22/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2022 Posts: 1742 Rating: (309)	Hello, 2 DP masters can both "share" (read) the inputs of a slave, but only one can "own" (control, write to) the outputs. The controlling Master is the onethat has sent the configuration Data at startup of the slave. Data can be read by controlling and Class 2 master. Because a PLC315 is a class 1 Master, I don't see the possibility to share the inputs via DP. I have the feeling that you are looking for a kind of redundancy. Here may be a total different approach:using switched periphery. Switched periphery is available in ET200M with 153-2, - either via software redundancy (see picture) The two stations are linked by means of a bus system via which they can exchange information. Connection to the peripheral devices is made via two DP master systems - one on station A and on one station B. ET 200M distributed I/O devices with redundant-backup DP slave interfaces (e.g. IM 153-3) are connected to the two DP master systems. The DP slave interface makes it possible to switch from the first to the second interface in the event of a fault, thereby enabling process status data to be passed to the peripherals by the second DP master. More info: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/1137637 - or via 400H systems Attachment sw_redundancy_hw.JPG (320 Downloads)
	Best regards jklm Suggestion was helpful? Feel free to rate it.
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8/17/2008 12:52 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Edr, tahnks for nice tip. You are right - that's some kind of redundancy, but it's only additional feature, so i guess we'dratherinstallsomethingcheaper:^)) I wondered about reading DP Slave's inputs by 2 class 1 masters.... seems not possible - but had to make some tests.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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8/17/2008 2:54 PM	Rate (1)
Late Platinum Expert Joined: 1/7/2006 Last visit: 11/17/2023 Posts: 2705 Rating: (318)	Hi, With SFC12 you can switch OFF and ON PROFIBUS DP and PROFINET IO slaves/devices. So you have to program for both CPUs the slaves/devices and the first CPU that get the slave/device online is the master/controller of that slave/device.
	I hope that the answer will help, if you have still questions, don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Late Never say never, think in solutions, not in trouble......
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8/17/2008 5:02 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Thanks, Late, also good variant. Did i understood you correctly - in this case we have 2 separate S7-projects for each master, and each of them contains 2 slaves? After making some tests: 1. If we take standart IM151-1, make them slaves of Master1 and configure DX with Master2 we get something very close to the goal. The only thing is - if Master1 goes offline then Master2 is not able to read DP-slaves' info (this comes from DX definition). 2. I decided to take 2 CP342-5, integrate them on masters and implement s7-communication. The only thing - ET200S can be only DP slaves - have to check how would they implement S7-communication without DP-master. Will test tommorow - no CP at the moment.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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8/21/2008 11:37 PM	Rate (0)
Late Platinum Expert Joined: 1/7/2006 Last visit: 11/17/2023 Posts: 2705 Rating: (318)	Hi Aret, It is that the first Master/Controller that have the slave/device have to communicate that to the other Master/Controller with a S7-connection, so that the other Master/Controller switch off his Slave/Device. When you do it that way then there are no red SF LED's on. You could also left both Masters/Controllers on the network standby, so that when one is falling out, the other directly could get the Slave/Device online. Thereby it is not a bumpless switching but it could be fast enough this way. When working with I/O that are staying in the last status it is even bumpless posible.... But then you have to make the software that way that over the communication the PII/PIQ is transfered every cycle to the other station. Hmm maybe it is easier to get the CPU412H, the bundle is not that price full that this would be cheaper...
	I hope that the answer will help, if you have still questions, don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Late Never say never, think in solutions, not in trouble......
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8/22/2008 8:06 AM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Initially it was a strict requirement about S7-300. And redundancy is addon feature as i said before. So it's interesting for me first of all :^) Thanks guys, i'll keep you informed about how it works.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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