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Wireless problems

Created by: Guus at: 10/5/2011 10:12 AM (10 Replies)

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10/5/2011 10:12 AM	Rate (0)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)	Hello everybody, When started my new job 2 months ago, i've been given a unfinisht project from the programmer before. It's a wireless system with a S7-300 PLC, mobile panel MP277 (V1) and two scalances W786-1PRO. First problem is the reception on one of the accespoints (scalances), accesspoint 1 is reachable for a distance of 70mtr and is enough. Accesspoint 2 is the trouble maker, it looses its signal after 30mtr. When standing before it (aprox. 1 mtr.) the signal bar shows 3 of the 5 stripes. That can't be right? Everything is open air not in a building. Nothing blocks the signal at operating point. Broadcasting is at 5GHz.Both configuration setups in the accesspoints are the same except IP address en name. Second problem is switching between accespoints. After some research a discovered it's not possible with this setup to switch fast between accespoints (rapid roaming). But is it possible to switch without PLC goinig in to save mode? It takes some time before second accesspoint to be found. Is it possible to automatically select strongest signal? A lot of questions, who has got the answers? Regards, Guus
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)
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10/5/2011 10:38 AM	Rate (0)
Amit_86 Platinum Member Joined: 3/18/2008 Last visit: 12/8/2023 Posts: 1750 Rating: (272)	Dear Guus, Can you pleasemention Access points Position(Location)????
	VANDE MATARAM.....
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10/5/2011 12:10 PM	Rate (0)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)	Amit_86 Dear Guus, Can you pleasemention Access points Position(Location)???? Hello Amit, In a straight line between access points it's aprox. 100 mtr. and both are mounted 5 mtr. from the ground. There is a average of 25% overlap of broadcasting signals as seen in the log file.
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)
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10/5/2011 2:26 PM	Rate (0)
INS Gold Member Joined: 4/6/2006 Last visit: 2/5/2024 Posts: 604 Rating: (56)	Hello Guus, It is difficult to help you with this limited information but I will try to help you solving the issues. 1. Have you checked the settings in the AP's? Are the power settings both on the same level? Which antennas do you use? Are these setup in the devices? Can you make a sketch of the environment? 2. For (rapid) roaming with a Mobile Panel you need the Panel version 2. This panel supports this additional protocol. Rapid Roaming needs also different AP's which are called for example Scalance W788-1RR or W786-2RR. The first version of the mobile panel with Safety was designed to be used with only one Access Point and there for didn't support Rapid Roaming.
	Best regards, INS
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10/5/2011 3:56 PM	Rate (0)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)	INS Hello Guus, It is difficult to help you with this limited information but I will try to help you solving the issues. 1. Have you checked the settings in the AP's? Are the power settings both on the same level? Which antennas do you use? Are these setup in the devices? Can you make a sketch of the environment? 2. For (rapid) roaming with a Mobile Panel you need the Panel version 2. This panel supports this additional protocol. Rapid Roaming needs also different AP's which are called for example Scalance W788-1RR or W786-2RR. The first version of the mobile panel with Safety was designed to be used with only one Access Point and there for didn't support Rapid Roaming. 1. Power setting are both on 1/2. AP1 is fine with this. Increase AP2 to max signal power makes no difference. Scalance W786-1has an internal antenna. In attachment a quick drawing. 2. I can't change the hardware it's configurated 1 year ago, I'll work here 2 months. I'm stuck with a MP277 version 1 panel and two W786-1 AP's. Is there no work around? Attachment img-X05151421-0001.pdf (207 Downloads)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)
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10/5/2011 4:17 PM	Rate (2)
INS Gold Member Joined: 4/6/2006 Last visit: 2/5/2024 Posts: 604 Rating: (56)	Hi Guus, To be honest with you this isn't the best setup for a Wireless LAN network where you want to have optimized connectivity with roaming. Normally I would have advised to use an real omni-directional antenna on the AP2. Since you have a product with an integrated antenna you can't use external antennas. I would also advice using Rapid Roaming (iPCF-MC) when you want to use the Mobile Panel combined with safety. Fot the panel there is no workaround. The Mobile Panel uses normal 802.11abg and there are no protocol enhancements available, compare the solution with a standard laptop. The Mobile Panel v2 has the optimized WLAN Solution which makes WLAN even more suitable for Safety and determinstik communication like ProfiNet IO. The determinstik is something you need for Safety. About thesignal strength, therecould be a possibility that the building helps to boost the signal of AP1. A reflector works like a mirror and the received signal strength you see doesn't mean the signal has a good quality. This is something you could test by swapping the both AP's. If the range stays the same on the same locations this is application behaviour. If the signal strength changes at both location as significant as you see at this moment I would advice to contact your local Siemens partner. You could do this by clicking 'Support Request' on the right side of this page. You will open a service request at the Custoemr Support department and they can help you checking out the different behaviour of both products. About the PLC going in 'save' mode somebody should review the Step 7 project. Maybe there is way to solve this by configuring it different. Except for when you use ProfiSafe a workaround might be possible.
	Best regards, INS
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This contribution was helpful to 2 thankful Users dchartier Guus

10/6/2011 8:07 AM	Rate (0)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)	INS Hi Guus, To be honest with you this isn't the best setup for a Wireless LAN network where you want to have optimized connectivity with roaming. Normally I would have advised to use an real omni-directional antenna on the AP2. Since you have a product with an integrated antenna you can't use external antennas. I would also advice using Rapid Roaming (iPCF-MC) when you want to use the Mobile Panel combined with safety. Fot the panel there is no workaround. The Mobile Panel uses normal 802.11abg and there are no protocol enhancements available, compare the solution with a standard laptop. The Mobile Panel v2 has the optimized WLAN Solution which makes WLAN even more suitable for Safety and determinstik communication like ProfiNet IO. The determinstik is something you need for Safety. About thesignal strength, therecould be a possibility that the building helps to boost the signal of AP1. A reflector works like a mirror and the received signal strength you see doesn't mean the signal has a good quality. This is something you could test by swapping the both AP's. If the range stays the same on the same locations this is application behaviour. If the signal strength changes at both location as significant as you see at this moment I would advice to contact your local Siemens partner. You could do this by clicking 'Support Request' on the right side of this page. You will open a service request at the Custoemr Support department and they can help you checking out the different behaviour of both products. About the PLC going in 'save' mode somebody should review the Step 7 project. Maybe there is way to solve this by configuring it different. Except for when you use ProfiSafe a workaround might be possible. I contacted Siemens yesterday and suggested a meeting on site. Lot's of thanks INS for the support!
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)
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10/6/2011 9:19 AM	Rate (0)
INS Gold Member Joined: 4/6/2006 Last visit: 2/5/2024 Posts: 604 Rating: (56)	Hallo Guus, Thanks. If possible the outcome would be interesting. I you don't want to post it here you can also send mye private message. I'm sure Siemens will support you with finding a solution.
	Best regards, INS
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users S_Moderator

10/14/2011 4:14 PM	Rate (1)
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)	INS Hallo Guus, Thanks. If possible the outcome would be interesting. I you don't want to post it here you can also send mye private message. I'm sure Siemens will support you with finding a solution. Problem on it's way to be solved, with some help fom Siemens Netherlands. Thanks Joost! The outcome is also rather shameful. When project starts accesspoint 1 W786-1PRO (6GK5 786-1BA60-2AA0) was installed. Later on to get a bit wider range a second accespoint was needed, but by misordering a W786-1PRO (6GK5 786-1AA60-2AA0) the second AP never had a great range. After some signal measuring it becomes clear what the problem is. AP2 has no internal antenna like the first one. After we connected a test external antenna the range was more than enough. Maybe after some tweaking next week, the external antenna can cover the whole operating area for it's mobile panel. Hopefully With this solution it also solves problem number 2. With just one AP it never has to switch between AP's. I wasn't sure if a should post the solution here, too embarrassing, but luckily for me i wasn't the one how put's the whole system together. And a lesson for everybody when ordering, one figure in the ordernumber can make a world of differents!
Guus Posts: 20 Rating: (1)
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This contribution was helpful to 2 thankful Users fritz INS

10/14/2011 4:22 PM	Rate (0)
INS Gold Member Joined: 4/6/2006 Last visit: 2/5/2024 Posts: 604 Rating: (56)	Hello Guus, Thanks for this feedback. At least it shows how helpfull the Siemens Support in different countries can be. I'm glad to hear that it is about to be solved.
	Best regards, INS
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