Hi,  [...]

I have another question. I would like to make total 13 communication connections as follows.

2 Ethernet connections to 2 different host computers. They read and write data at CPU 417-5H and I/O data at distributed IO(ET200 ) which is connected to 417-5H via Profinet.

11 MODBUS TCP connections to remote RS-485 communication facilities. 

Is it possible to manage 13 different communication trough CPU card PN port?

Please refer attached diagram for the architecture that I mentioned.

If you let me know proper model for Ethernet switch at the attached diagram, it would be very helpful for me as well.

Many thanks again.

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Split from [417-5H]difference between CPU card RJ-45 port and CP443-1 RJ-45 port function

Hello Dolpoong;

The S7-417-5H is considered a monster CPU, it is on of the most powerful controllers ever produced by Siemens.

Look at the number of connections of this model available on different integrated ports:

- Technical data of CPU 417-5H :

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ww/en/pv/6AG1417-5HT06-7AB0/td

Profinet (integrated port) connections available: 120

Open IE (on integrated port) connections available: 46

DP (integrated port) connections available: 32 (this does not refer to the number of slaves you can connect to each network).

Basically you should have no problem accommodating the networks you plan to use.

Now, as far as switches are concerned, you will have to determine certain parameters before you decide on specific material. Amongst other things:

- Copper or fiber optic interfaces, or a mixture of both. Often you will need F.O. cables when you need greater distance (copper is limited to 100 m runs before you need to install another switch) or when you are planning to pass through an area where electric fields can affect copper signals (near power cables or motors), If F.O. cabling is required, you need to determine if your glass F.O. cables will be multimode or single-mode (again a question of distance); single-mode transducers are mode powerful than multimode and the cables have less attenuation of signal, so they can attain greater distances (I mean up to 80 km, in some cases).

- Speed of the communications: 10, 100, 1000 MBit Ethernet (for copper).

- Number of ports; you have 13 ports required for your application as it is designed now, so a 16-port switch would be a minimum. If there is any chance the project might be expanded at a later date I would go for a 24-port switch now; the price difference would not be great enough to matter..

- Managed (for media redundancy or ring topologies) or unmanaged switch? Unmanaged are simplest to setup and use, and unless you need to meet specific design criteria it is best you go for one of these.

Now Siemens proposes all kinds of switches in their Scalance family. For example, this link will take you to the Siemens unmanaged X100 Scalance switch offerings:

http://w3.siemens.com/mcms/industrial-communication/en/ie/industrial-ethernet-switches-media-converters/pages/scalance-x-100-unmanaged.aspx

But many other manufacturers offer similar equipment, check out Moxa, Belden, Netgear, Red Lion, Ruggedcom and many other sources on the web. Or better still, discuss your application with a local provider, and ensure support and warranties are available for your project.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello,

I appreciate your kind and detail explanations.

This time, I am checking adding CP443 card and perform communication via CP443. 

Distributed IO at ET200 should be connected fault-Tolerant CPU system S7-400H.,

In this case, my questions are as follows.

1. Is the PN port at CPU card should be assigned for Profinet connection to ET200 so that we should use additional CP cards for facility control Ethernet connection?

2. Should we use 2 same CP cards as CPU cards for Fault-Tolerant operation as attached diagram? Otherwise is 1 CP card enough even there are two CPU cards?

Many thanks again.

Hello Dolpoong;

Two things should be noticed here first from your new diagram:

- your Modbus/TCP slaves are all now in a remote station. How far is this site from your main controller (you may have to look into F.O.connections if this site is much further than 100m from the main controller; look again at the previous post.

It would be best to plan for 2 switches (at least): one next to the controller, one in the remote site, so that a single cable can connect the 2 distant sites (much easier to handle and install). Again, I suggest you discuss this with a technically competent local rep. of the equipment to be used.

- Profinet uses TCP as its  Transport layer (see the OSI model description for networks in Wikipedia for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model ), the same as Modbus/TCP; so both can coexist on the same physical layer (copper or F.O.). You do not need to double the communication ports, the 2 x CP 443-1 selected in the diagram would be quite sufficient.

The main issue you will have the redundancy license for Modbus/TCP; with CP 443-1s you require :

Modbus/TCP RED V2 (for CP 343-1 and CP 443-1): part # 2XV9450-1MB11

Refer to this link, already proposed to you earlier in this discussion:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ww/en/view/22660304

And then of course you must ensure the redundancy of the TCP/IP connection between the PCs and the CP 443-1 in the controllers. What communication card do you plan to use in the OS station and the Communication station?

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello Daniel,

Thank you for kind answers. 

Because there are two Ethernet ports in one CP443-1 card, I would like to clarify your answer regarding required card numbers? Please check attached "diagram-4".

1. Is the right side additional CP card necessary for Fault-Tolerant opreation?

2. For communications between PCs and PLC, STP cable will be connected to PC's built in Ethernet port.

And, I have one more question regarding Ethernet switch selection.

In case of, Fault-redundant systems as attached diagram, should managed switch instead of unmanaged  switch be used?

Many thanks as always.

Hello Dolpoong;

1.-  This is not a second CP card, this is the CP card attached to the second CPU in a redundant H-system. How could you maintain redundancy in case of loss of a single CPU if you do not have a CP 443-1 attached to each one?

Look again at the screenshot I proposed in our first conversation the screenshot specifies a redundant H-system with 2 CP 443-1 (one per CPU)

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/139785/

You require one CP 443-1 for each CPU in a redundant H-system, but only a single Red V2 license for Open ModbusTCP.

2- The answer to that question comes down to what software will be running in your PCs: how will they handle redundancy with an H-system.

If your OS is  running WinCC, then you have 2 options: Fault-tolerant connections on a CP 1623 with Simatic Net and a Redconnect license (this is a type of hot-swap system), expensive but it will changeover very quickly and efficiently in case of CPU loss. Or you can use standard NICs and a Dynamic Wizard for CPU changeover; this is a warm-swap system, that requires more time for changeover and is less reliable. Read about it in the WinCC online help. Or here:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/29472/

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/58252/

What software do you plan on using in your Communications PC? How will that software handle redundancy?

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello!

Thank you for kind and detail explanations again.

Regarding PC communication software, I do not have detail information because other company will be in charge of developing programs on PC. So, I do not have knowledge on software handling redundancy.

I heard that they will use OPC server.

Thanks again,