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6RA80 DCM Winder Setup With DCC

Created by: 335I_BMW at: 8/6/2022 12:46 AM (7 Replies)

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8/6/2022 12:46 AM	Rate (0)
335I_BMW Advanced Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/5/2022 Posts: 26 Rating: (0)	I have a 6RA80 DCM Drive that I need to setup as a winder. The winder runs in speed mode until we switch to tension.. We have a tension POT and a Taper POT.. Also, we have two load cell inputs to give us the actual tension.. We have the DCC license and I have installed everything in Starter to setup the drives. I have read the manual and reviewed the examples from the website.. It appears that if I import the Winder.XML object and the scripts associated with that project, I will get a graphical interface setup. Also, the manual on page 42 mentions importing the Wickler.XML file.. Should I import Wickler or Winder.XML? I have done winders with other drives but I haven't programmed a Siemens DCM with DCC. Is this this the best way to setup the 6RA80 DCM winders.. I wanted to use this feature with the graphical interface VS. finding the parameters and entering them in.. Any better way to do this or is this the best way? Any suggestions??? Thanks,

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8/8/2022 12:46 PM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 10/6/2022 Posts: 5317 Rating: (708)	Hello, a graphical interface (in the winder application assistant) is only available using Starter software (okay, thats a must for DCM), but unfortunately only for CU320-2 based drives like S120, not for SINAMICS DCM. So you setup the function with the script and adjust and tune the function with the parameter list. A graphical interface is unfortunately not available. Of course DCC is a graphical tool and you could work there in theory, but this I would only recommend for very experienced users, as it the graphical programming interface for application development and working there is much more complex than using the function diagrams from the documentation and using the parameter list. Importing "Wickler.xml" as shown in the English documentation would result in getting all DCC parameters in German language - thats a mistake in the documentation, as the DCC parameters do not depend on the language setting, it would not be possible to change them to English after the import. So you should use "Winder.xml" instead. I will correct this in the next version of the documentation.
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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8/8/2022 3:07 PM	Rate (0)
335I_BMW Advanced Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/5/2022 Posts: 26 Rating: (0)	Thank You!!! So, I imported the winder.xml object but I am assuming I can't use DCC because I have a 6RA80 Siemens DCM Drive? Do I just import the configuration scripts in the manual called winder_interconnectionScript? I am assuming that when I do that, you are recommending not trying to use the graphical interface of DCC.. It sounds like I need to import the scripts, then just setup the parameters manually? I am not familiar with DCC so I am not an experienced user.. I have done winders and winding applications with other platforms but not a Siemens DCM 6RA80.. Any assistance would be appreciated.. Is there a list of winder parameters that I need to setup? Basically, the existing 6RA24 setup had the following: Spindle B Speed SP from the Line, Tension SP POT , Taper SP POT.. I am assuming it had a tension or speed input so drive can switch over.. Spindle A Peer to Peer connection to Spindle B.. It had everything B had except it didn't have the two tension and taper ports.. I am assuming it was sent over via Peer to Peer Link.. Thanks,

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8/9/2022 9:45 AM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 10/6/2022 Posts: 5317 Rating: (708)	Hello, Sorry, I have expressed myself in a misleading way. Also with the SINAMICS DCM the application is integrated as described in the documentation, i.e. with Starter the DCC plan is imported over the Winder.xml and by means of the Scriptes the necessary interconnections of the parameters can be accomplished. However, the documentation also describes the partially graphical commissioning wizard (this is based on Excel and scripting), but this cannot be used together with a DCM - but this has no influence on the integration of the DCC plan and the use as well as the functionality. To use the application, almost no DCC knowledge is required, since all useful setting variables and interconnections are available via the parameter list. Unlike other winder applications, however, the DCC plan is not protected, but could be adapted to very special requirements if necessary. One could compare this with a Simoreg 6RA70 with winder functionality on T300 or T400. The installation of the T300 or T400 brought the application and with it a number of new parameters for winders. This corresponds with the DCC winder to the import of the DCC plan (a separate processor is no longer needed there today). With T300 and T400 one could buy then additionally the resources of the loaded software of the board around these particularly to adapt (with CFC which is nearly identical to the DCC). But only very experienced specialists needed this, besides the software was connected with costs - today one gets the DCC(CFC) plan without costs and without protection, so that everyone could adapt it. But this is only extremely rarely necessary. If one would execute the script without the DCC plan, one gets only the error that the plan is missing, because this contains the actual software, the script facilitates only the start-up, by setting parameters and interconnections, which are necessary with the use with DCM, automatically. If there used to be two drives A and B, I assume that B was only operated as a following drive to A, i.e. running in speed or torque coupling to A. In such a case, there is no winder application on B. Finally, all parameter settings are described in the documentation, there are also lists, depending on the application. If you have any questions, please contact us here or by e-mail (see our profile).
	Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 08/09/2022 12:57:29 Text formatting optimized. With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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8/9/2022 6:00 PM	Rate (0)
335I_BMW Advanced Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/5/2022 Posts: 26 Rating: (0)	Hello, I appreciate the feedback in regards to the DCC Winder Information.. I apologize for being a newbie to the Siemens Winder Configuration.. I have Starter loaded and I have all the licenses for DCC loaded as well.. I am looking for the simplest way to setup a 6RA80 winder.. Please see below for the existing 6RA24 Winder Configuration.. We have two turrets that rotate and they are called spindle A and Spindle B.. Both have 6RA24 drives setup in winder configuration..Spindle A has a line speed input as well as inputs set for speed mode and tension mode.. Also, spindle A has two load cell inputs for tension..Spindle B has a POT for Tension and a POT for Taper.. Also, Spindle B has inputs for speed and tension mode.. Both spindles communicate via Peer To Peer.. For example, they will be running Spindle A and the roll will build to the size they want, then they switch over to Spindle B. I think that when Spindle B starts, it is in speed mode, then switches to Tension mode when the web is wound around the mill roll.. Based on your other note, it appears that I shouldn't even try to deal with DCC. Should I just import the winder script and set the winder up that way? I played with that the other day and it appeared to show a web page setup or explorer.. For some reason, it didn't allow me to select tthe winder drive... Once I get online and setup my baseline starter application in starter, I will try the import and setup again.. Is there documentation that shows detailed setup of a winder with the script functions? I briefly went through the manual and I didn't see all the details but maybe I missed them.. Thanks.. The help is appreciated..
	Last edited by: 335I_BMW at: 08/09/2022 18:18:59 Last edited by: 335I_BMW at: 08/09/2022 20:04:49
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8/10/2022 12:43 PM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 10/6/2022 Posts: 5317 Rating: (708)	Hi, Okay, so it's not a winder and a following drive, but a kind of roll change from winder A to winder B. One is then operated in tension control with the load cells, the second rather with simpler control and without tension detection? Unfortunately, I have no experience with the 6RA24 and so hardly anyone will have more details about such a constellation. According to experience, however, such applications should also be able to replace but without problems with the DCC winder. I would also try in the first approach to import the DCC plan, but not to open and edit it. Of course, you can make adjustments in the plan later, if additional functions are still needed. There my suggestion would be to discuss the change requests with us, then it has proven in the past when we make a small step by step guide describing how to implement this with DCC/CFC. The script should actually go, but you need an Internetexplorer for these VB scripts, because other browsers unfortunately do not support this. Otherwise you would have to set the parameters manually according to chapter 4.6, or it would be helpful for the diagnosis of the problems to send us a few screenshots by e-mail (Please include full name, citizenship, as well as name and address of the company, that we need for reasons of export control.
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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8/10/2022 9:45 PM	Rate (0)
335I_BMW Advanced Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/5/2022 Posts: 26 Rating: (0)	Hello, Thanks for the reply.. In regards to the existing system, I will try to explain how the existing 6RA24 drives are working.. If we startup the line without product or a web, the spindle A if it is rotated into the machine will run in speed mode.. Then, once we detect the web, we switch to Tension Mode.. Those are all controlled with discrete inputs for speed-tension mode.. So, if spindle A is running in tension mode, the other spindle B is setting idle.. When the turret rotates Spindle B into the machine, spindle B is in speed mode and once the web wraps around the core, we switch that spindle to Tension Mode.. We have a tension SP POT and a Taper Tension SP POT.. So, as the roll is running in tension mode, it follows the tension SP but it also Tapers the Tension as the roll builds to eliminate telescoping.. Also, it really keeps the proper tension on the web to produce a good roll.. I will import the winder.XML file and I will import the winder script.. Once I get the drives setup, I will try to run the script again to see if it will let me select the winder drives.. Once I do that, I can report back.. Thanks Again,

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10/3/2022 6:08 PM	Rate (0)
335I_BMW Advanced Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/5/2022 Posts: 26 Rating: (0)	Hello, I had time to start configuring the winder drives.. I successfully loaded the technology package in the drive.. Also, I loaded the DCC Chart Winder and I loaded the DCC Interconnect Winder Script.. I went to the sheet view and I see the pages but I am somewhat confused as to how I configure everything for my application.. I read a note that stated the wizard didn't work for my DCM Drives so maybe I have to go into the sheet view to make edits.. Is there anything in the documentation to assist in setting up the winders once the scripts and charts are in place? Thanks for any assistance provided.. I wanted to provide the details of the application.. I have two spindles, A&B. First of all, both drives will receive a slave speed signal from the master drive via the peer to peer. When spindle B is active, he runs in speed mode until an input switches it to tension mode.. When Spindle B has accumulated the correct roll size, the turret is rotated to Spindle A and it starts running the prcess film.. Spindle B has two analog inputs for a tension sp POT and a taper sp POT. Spindle A has two analog inputs for two load cells. I guess I will need to send the signals between the drives for tension setpoints and tension/taper etc.. Can I just setup those words in the peer to peer setting? Will those registers be passed to all the drives or just the two winder drives? Just would like some guidance into getting these registers setup in the winder drives..
	Last edited by: 335I_BMW at: 10/03/2022 18:47:13
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