How to control tension of unwind and winding machine ?

Dear Expert,

I have to design machine and control of unwind and winding of fabric roller like as picture.

The fabric width around 1meter and dimeter around 1 meter as well the weigh around 60-70 kg.

How should I use servo motor and drive and PLC as well ?

How should I use gear size ?

Is it should have other sensor or something addition ?

And how can I programming it to keep tension when it stop ?

Help me please.

Best Regards,

Check out the converting toolbox:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/de/en/view/109744606

There is a winder solution for SINAMICS (solved with DCC) and with SIMATIC / SIMOTION. So depending on your hardware you should find a fitting solution for you.

jacek d

Have you seen this?

 Dear jacek d,

Which application suitable for my job ?

BR,

Vorapob

Hi vorapob,

sorry I know you didn't ask me, but I will try to make things a little bit more clear.

From the webpage you can see that all systems (SINAMICS, SIMATIC, SIMOTION) support all common control modes for winders. So for the beginning the question is: Which hardware do you aleady have? And if you want to decide for a hardware you should just ask yourself: Which system do you know better? 

From your rough drawing we cannot see much details but as shown there seems to be no nip (this is the part that usually clamps the material and is the speed master of the system). 

With an existing nip it is quite common to use direct or indirect tension control mode for example. 

Without a nip you just have the possibility to use v-constant control mode. All systems are supporting this control mode. 

So either you are very common with SINAMICS S120 - then you could use the SINAMICS DCC solution for winders. This solution consists of a DCC chart which you add to your axes and then just parameterize everything.

Or you are very experienced in SIMATIC programming - then you could use the SIMATIC solution. There are all necessary function blocks available like for diameter calculation and also complete example projects.

RB91

Hi vorapob,

sorry I know you didn't ask me, but I will try to make things a little bit more clear.

From the webpage you can see that all systems (SINAMICS, SIMATIC, SIMOTION) support all common control modes for winders. So for the beginning the question is: Which hardware do you aleady have? And if you want to decide for a hardware you should just ask yourself: Which system do you know better? 

From your rough drawing we cannot see much details but as shown there seems to be no nip (this is the part that usually clamps the material and is the speed master of the system). 

With an existing nip it is quite common to use direct or indirect tension control mode for example. 

Without a nip you just have the possibility to use v-constant control mode. All systems are supporting this control mode. 

So either you are very common with SINAMICS S120 - then you could use the SINAMICS DCC solution for winders. This solution consists of a DCC chart which you add to your axes and then just parameterize everything.

Or you are very experienced in SIMATIC programming - then you could use the SIMATIC solution. There are all necessary function blocks available like for diameter calculation and also complete example projects.

 Dear Robert,

What is the nip material and size ?

I think I will use PLC S7-1511T and two S210 servomotor and drive.

Do you have application like this for my job ?

Best Regards,

Vorapob

Dear Robert,

"Without a nip you just have the possibility to use v-constant control mode. All systems are supporting this control mode."

How can use v-constant control mode for my job if not use nip and PLC ?

How to configuration and DCC programming ?

Which one is flexible and easier between use PLC control and use winder DCC S120 ? 

Best Regards,

Vorapob

Hi,

I know you have many questions when you never did a winder application before. And it's somehow true: you really need to learn quite a few things about the process and the control of winders when you want to realize such an application. 

I cannot tell you whether the SIMATIC or the SINAMICS DCC solution is more easy than the other one. This really depends on your knowledge. 

My recommendation is to use the SIMATIC solution with 1500T CPU and use the LConAMC 1500T application from here:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/de/en/view/58565043

Please check out the manual. Chapter 2 really explains all the basics you need to know about winders (all control modes with working principle schemes etc.). It also explains what is a nip. In my words: this is a motor driven roll which clamps the material. Between the clamp and the winder itself you can create the constant tension to have a good winding quality. The process of doing something with the material (printing, coating,...) is done before the nip. If no nip exists you need to get the web velocity in another way (see v-constant control mode).

In chapter 3 of the manual you will see how to step by step integrate the solution to your project.

I recommend the SIMATIC solution as you will anyway need a PLC control for your machine. So you have to do your task more or less just on the PLC side. If you would use the S120 DCC solution you would need to parameterize a lot on the drive side and also create your automation on the PLC side. That's the reason for my recommendation. 

I know it's never cool to read a manual but in this case I can really just recommend it to you. We will for sure NOT be able to explain all the different aspects of winding technology here in the forum. You should use the forum in this case to ask detailed questions about one of the solutions. 

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your recommend I will study LConAMC 1500Tapplication.

Best Regards,

vorapob